A Blazing Conversation

Translated by: Harley Acres

Burning Pen (燃えよペン/Moeyo Pen) the forbidden book that shook the industry, will finally be released on July 31. To commemorate this event(?) Rumiko Takahashi, a "passionate writer," and Kazuhiko Shimamoto, a "sparking manga artist," had a heated and passionate discussion about the life of a burning manga artist.

So at first I would draw, "Meeting with the editor is a battle!" But in the latter half of the year...

Takahashi: I love Burning Pen. I think you have done a great job of elevating the reality of being a mangaka to comedy. I think it's important to make fun of yourself without insulting others. It's very funny. ^[1]

Shimamoto: Thank you very much.

Takahashi: There were times when I cried as I read it. Like the part where he blew on the white-out and had your assistant redraw it. My assistant also read it and freaked out. ^[2]

Shimamoto: The type of mangaka that does stuff like that is the worst, right?

Takahashi: Yeah.

Shimamoto: But don't you feel bad, people reading from your point of view as the mangaka, and seeing that? (laughs)

Takahashi: Personally, I think it's rough. For example, you may want to have the assistant redraw the background due to compositional issues. In such a case, I would think of a way not to hurt the assistant's feelings. Especially for large panels, you think about how to keep the assistant motivated for the time being.

Shimamoto: I see. Well, I heard this story as an incident that happened with a certain artist.

Takahashi: Who!? (laughs)

Shimamoto: However, assistants are people who are in the process of becoming creators themselves, so I tried not to include them in the manga. However, my staff was so happy to be featured that we just ran with it.

I often think that if I am Joe Yabuki, who is the other person? The other day, I declared to a certain creator, "That makes you Carlos!"

Takahashi: Well, if you say they're Carlos, it's fine, but if you say, "You're Harimau," they'll get angry (laughs). ^[3]

Shimamoto: So today, I've been thinking about who Rumiko Takahashi is, but since you're a woman, it would be good if you were Yoko Shiraki. ^[4]

Takahashi: Well, she was a hell of a woman (laughs).

Shimamoto: Who is Takahashi-sensei targeting?

Takahashi: There are many manga artists I like, but let's put that aside for now. If there is someone who draws the same kind of book as me and is better than me, I'll try to beat that person. If that person has achieved this or that level of greatness, I'll aim for that. To put it another way, my main goal is to achieve work that satisfies me.

Shimamoto: So before that, when you didn't have a weekly serial, you didn't see anyone as a rivals?

Takahashi: I don't think so. At that time, I had climbed to the top of the pyramid on my own, or to put it another way I could only see my own work. When I started out, I wasn't conscious of being compared to others.

Shimamoto: In my case, I have a lot of rivals. I beat everyone except myself (laughs). My language might be a bit bad, but it's not that I don't like what I do.

Takahashi: Yeah, I understand.

Shimamoto: I want to talk with my rival as an equal. Then I can't have an equal feeling if I think I'm losing to the other person through my work. I have to clench my fists (laughs) and think about how I can beat my rival.

Takahashi: I don't like guys who lose and give their opponents a round of applause. I hate losers.

Shimamoto: That's why I'm clenching my fists today (laughs). After Rikiishi's match, Joe said, "You can raise your hands and receive applause, until the day comes when I beat you to pieces in the ring." ^[5] ...Is it okay to say this? (laughs)

Takahashi: That's natural, isn't it? Don't get along with your rival.

Shimamoto: Yeah, that's right. Some mangaka lose their passion after a long period of time, don't they? When I hear such stories, I can no longer recognize that person, even though I used to see them as a rival.

What motivates you to create manga?

Shimamoto: It's my desire to see someone's manga sell really well, to become an anime, and to have so many fans lined up in front of the movie theater on the first day of a film adaptation of the manga. ^[6]

I think it's important to make fun of yourself without insulting others.

Takahashi: For me, it's also about where to start...

Shimamoto: Wait a minute. I was just talking about external factors. I'm going to sound like someone who draws manga just to make money (laughs).

Takahashi: When I was a kid, I read my favorite manga, imitated them, and made up stories with borrowed pictures, and gradually came to dislike the borrowed ones.

Shimamoto: At that time, you wanted to make others feel as excited as you were.

Takahashi: Right, you do it to please someone.

Shimamoto: Yes. At first, yes. Then it becomes more and more... Actually, I've never seen anyone reading my manga on the train. I twice saw someone skipping past mine in the magazine (laughs). When I'm feeling positive, I still watch for it now! When I'm feeling good, I can imagine that there will come a time when they'll feel bad that they didn't read it in real time, that they'll definitely read it again later, and that they'll buy the book. But when I'm feeling down, I wonder what I did wrong (laughs).

Takahashi: There's a good spot near the train's entrance to watch from, right? I was standing there, but then a dodgy guy came in to the station and took my spot. I thought to myself, "Oh my God, this guy was reading my book." I thought, "What a nice guy!" I was looking at him from behind, wondering if he was enjoying my story.

Shimamoto: In my case, it seems that people in the industry read my manga, but I'm wondering if general readers read it and enjoy it. I think aspiring manga artists would find it interesting. And although the content is a gag, I wonder if my peers would be offended if they read it.

Takahashi: It's done very well. It's made so that it won't be taken as being snarky.

Shimamoto: That's what I'm most concerned with.

Takahashi: Naturally.

Shimamoto: Also, if the editor was offended, it would be detrimental to my work, so I tried to draw in a way that the editor would read and think it would be interesting to work with this artist, and that prospective assistants would want to work with my production studio... There's that kind of sneaky thinking.

Takahashi: But the assistants might not like it (laughs).

Shimamoto: Oh, yeah, and won't draw anything good.

Takahashi: That's why I don't draw lies (laughs).

Shimamoto: I draw according to my own situation at the time, so at first I would draw, "Meeting with the editor is a battle!" But in the latter half of the year, the meetings became fun, and I'd find myself asking to have a meeting (laughs).

Takahashi: There was also the fact that you wanted to meet an idol. ^[7]

Shimamoto: That was just pure selfishness (laughs).

Takahashi: How are you feeling?

Shimamoto: I'm doing great.

Editor Kawanakajima: Shimamoto-sensei had an "appendectomy scare" though...

Shimamoto: One day I had a sharp pain in my stomach. When I went to the hospital they said I might have appendicitis, I thought I just needed rest.

I had the idea in my head that a first-rate creator should take time off, and I had never taken a summer vacation or anything like that (laughs). I thought this was my chance, so I faxed the medical paperwork to all the companies.

Takahashi: So it ended up being nothing?

Shimamoto: Yeah, just stress.

Takahashi: I wonder if my previous appendectomy was also the result of accumulated stress. ^[8]

Shimamoto: I think you must not like the idea of dropping your work, Takahashi-sensei.

Takahashi: I hate it so much. When I was in the hospital, I cried because I was so frustrated. But when I received a weekly magazine that didn't have my work in it, I felt less bitter about the situation.

Shimamoto: There's a story about a mangaka who was trying desperately not to drop their work, but when he was told by his supervisor that if he dropped the work, no one would die, he felt much better and took a break (laughs).

Takahashi: I just don't think you should run away and drop your series. I think that can definitely be habit-forming. Sometimes when I try to draw something, it doesn't turn out the way I imagined it would, and I want to run away, but when I hear rumors of mangaka who have actually abandoned their work... ^[9]

Shimamoto: It seems like there really are people like that.

Takahashi: That's why running away is so much more scary.

Shimamoto: If it's an uninteresting name at the very end and its time to start drawing the manuscript, it's done. ^[10] But I can't draw with that. I wish my editors would just say, "let's take a break this time and recharge our batteries" (laughs), but they never do.

Takahashi: There was one time last year that was really bad and it was a two day all-nighter. ^[11] I never stay up all night for two days. Even so, it was hopeless. There is no way I can draw a good story in that condition. I kept wondering if my editor would let me sleep, and then I heard him whispering on the phone next to me. I was hoping that he would negotiate with the printing house and tell me that I could go to bed, but he just walked right up next to me and left a bottle of Yunker (laughs). ^[12] I used to point and laugh at the deformed mangaka on TV and think they were lying, but now that I'm in their shoes, I realize that they weren't lying (laughs). I also don't know how to draw without cutting corners. Of course there are times when I draw lightly and enjoyably, but I don't know how to cut corners and make light work of it.

Shimamoto: I have a longing for quick, flowing drawings, and I've definitely tried to cut corners. I'd try my best to make a lot of white space, but it would be faster if I drew everything in the meantime (laughs).

Takahashi: I know the feeling.

Shimamoto: I said earlier that I would beat my rival, but even if Joe defeats Jose, Jose has built something. So it's not so much that I want to beat him, but rather that I want to climb up to that level. Yes, I guess I'm just following up on that thought (laughs). I don't think you care about your popularity in magazines, do you Takahashi-sensei?

Takahashi: No way, I certainly do. I hate losing.

Shimamoto: I'm very happy to hear that. Goals are rewarding.

Takahashi: I hate to be on the defensive. I don't want to just play it safe.



Shimamoto: Takahashi-sensei, you won't be on the mantlepiece forever. That's what I like about you. I want the opponent I beat to be a champion forever. There is a way to make it exciting when the opponent you were aiming for loses to someone else right before the fight, isn't there? I don't really like that in reality though (laughs).

Takahashi: Yes, yes. If they lose, they still lose, or they retire.

Shimamoto: That's not it. Champions don't retire. But just because you won the popularity vote once doesn't mean you won.

Takahashi: That's true (laughs). Even defending a title is more difficult (laughs). But in total, there is no mangaka who surpasses Tezuka-sensei. ^[13] But I guess that's what everyone should be aiming for.

Shimamoto: I want to be aware that I am taking over for the previous generation. I want to be able to say, "Leave the rest to me.

Takahashi: But don't you think it's scary when they don't accept you? When they still don't want to leave it to you and think they can do it better than you? (laughs)

Shimamoto: I wonder, what would you feel at a time like that?

Takahashi: For example, who?

Shimamoto: Please don't make me talk about such a dangerous thing (laughs).

Takahashi: Young people today are good at drawing. Even if I improve little by little, I cannot catch up with the way the world is progressing. How to survive, then, is through composition, passion, and persistence.

Shimamoto: There are many people who started out with Rumiko Takahashi as their mother, but even if they only have a good technique, their eyes are dead because they haven't found their own unique style. But that may be the reason why some of them are popular with readers. You have to be worried about these things. I don't like that kind of work, but they must wonder if it's acceptable or not, and then perhaps they think, "Well, I'll try drawing it that way."

Takahashi: But you shouldn't do anything that you don't approve of yourself.

Shimamoto: Yeah. I've never done it before.

Takahashi: Why don't you draw a manga that tackles that kind of story? (laughs)

Shimamoto: But when you criticize something, there must be a reference, right? In those cases, there is a model that one should never criticize in such a way, but Rumiko Takahashi told me to draw it this way. (laugh) Also, there are those who criticize others by saying "something like this is wrong," but what they themselves are doing is the exact same as what they're criticizing.

Takahashi: Each is true. No matter what you say, it's like you're strangling yourself.

Shimamoto: So, in turn, those who are the true leading experts don't speak for others.

Takahashi: I couldn't say (laughs). As I said before, it's alright as long as I can deny it to myself when I read a manga that is boring but well received. I think it's scary when you can't deny it anymore. When you read a manga that is very popular for the first time, it's scary. What if I don't find it interesting?

Shimamoto: I understand. I'm burning up! What am I doing?! What am I doing eating tempura in front of Rumiko Takahashi? If I was eating, nothing would budge. It was worth coming here today, wasn't it? Damn!

Takahashi: Are you about to lose to someone else? (laughs)

Shimamoto: Well, I'm going to start in a weekly magazine this time around... I wonder how it'll turn out that after this, I'll be so engrossed in writing the name for a new serial at another company that I'll drop Burning Pen for this issue. It's getting exciting!

Editor Kawanakajima: This is getting ridiculous (laughs). ^[14]

We will present you with a shikishi signed by both Kazuhiko Shimamoto and Rumiko Takahashi. There's only one copy in the whole world, so, it is limited to one winner! If you would like to win, please send a postcard with your name, address, age, occupation, and your impressions of this interview, as well as two works you found interesting and two works you found boring in the magazine. Send your postcard to the "Dialogue on Fire" section of Young Club, 〒1 Takeshobo Co., Ltd. 2-7-3 Iidabashi, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo. The winner will be announced.

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Footnotes

• [1] Kazuhiko Shimamoto (島本和彦) is a longtime admirer of Rumiko Takahashi. He appeared in her autobiographical short story The Diary of Kemo Kobiru (けも・こびるの日記) and has frequently referenced how inspired by Takahashi's work he was. Shimamoto has contributed a "My Lum" for the shinsoban editions of Urusei Yatsura as well.
• [2] Here Takahashi is referring to Burning Pen chapter 3, "The Cry of an Unloved Assistant". In this chapter, the protagonist, noted mangaka Moyuru Hono has his assistant draw a detailed double-page city skyline. When she finishes and hands it to him, Honoh blows Wite-Out on it to create an explosion effect. However he blows too much white onto the image, ruining it. Despite how complicated the drawing was he tells her to redraw it. After she runs away a fellow assistant runs after Akiko and tells her the legend that Honoh had made his girlfriend draw a page over five times until she left him, but he held back his tears until the chapter was completed. Inspired by his dedication to manga, Akiko returns and redraws the two pages and Honoh immediately blows Wite-Out all over them again, ruining the pages.
• [3] Takahashi and Shimamoto are referring to characters from Tetsuya Chiba's legendary boxing manga Ashita no Joe. Carlos Rivera is a Venezuelan boxer, an honorable fighter that becomes good friends with Joe Yabuki, the series protagonist. Carlos went to a decision with Joe, but their fight ultimately left him punch drunk and never able to box again. Harimau is a Malaysian tribesman who communicates in grunts and behaves like an animal. He shows an aptitude for boxing and uses unorthodox techniques like leaping from the ring ropes.
• [4] Yoko Shiraki is also from Ashita no Joe, she is a complex character who is wealthy and charitable, though Joe believes that she does this to feel superior to others.
• [5] This is another Ashita no Joe reference. Toru Rikiishi is one of Joe Yabuki's greatest rivals and their fight against one another is one of the most famous in the manga.
• [6] Twenty-eight years after this interview, in 2019, Shimamoto's manga Blue Blazes (アオイホノオ/Aoi Honoo) shows his autobiographical surrogate, Moyuru Hono, going to see Only You in the theater and having a near-religious experience in the process.
• [7] Here Takahashi is referring to Burning Pen chapter 4, "The Tragedy of Idol Worship". In this chapter, the protagonist, Moyuru Hono is shown an idol in a magazine and decides to create a character based on her. He forces his editor to buy huge amounts of posters, photo books and laser discs of the idol for "research purposes" and then says he will no longer make manga if he cannot meet her. In tongue-in-cheek fashion at the beginning of the chapter, Shimamoto says it is important not to get him confused with the character of Moyuru Hono.
• [8] From November 2, 1988 and January 25, 1989 (between Ranma 1/2 chapter 64 and chapter 65) Rumiko Takahashi took a break from her weekly manga production for the first time in her career due to being hospitalized for appendicitis. During her hospitalization she was interviewed by fellow mangaka Masami Yuki.
• [9] Around this era (the early 1990s) probably one of the most famous mangaka who would very quickly abandon their series was Hisashi Eguchi (江口寿史). Big Comic Spirits editor Katsuya Shirai recounted how difficult it was to make Eguchi meet his deadlines and when pressed too hard he would simply quit the project altogether. Shirai noted that Eguchi left Paparinko Monogatari (パパリンコ物語) which ran in Big Comic Spirits from 1985 to 1986, with too few chapters to be able to publish a collected tankobon, a fact that has tormented Shirai for decades. Eguchi would often say he was "bitten by a white alligator" when he was going to miss deadlines.
• [10] "Name" (ネーム) are storyboards. These are the rough drawings that layout each page's panel layouts, character positions in each panel, and handwritten dialogue balloons. Some artists ink over their name, others draw on a fresh sheet which preserves the name. After joining Twitter (and on a few rare occasions earlier) Takahashi would share a panel of her name next to the finished panel.
• [11] Takahashi is likely talking about her November 1990 workload here. In Shonen Sunday 1990 Vol. 52 she commented, "In December, we'll be working hard on Spirits, Original and the usual work." At the time Takahashi was gearing up for a busy time indeed as The Grandfather of All Baseball Games would be published in Spirits, The Tragedy of P in Original, plus two shorts for other magazines and authors, and two chapters of One-Pound Gospel, in addition to her weekly work on Ranma 1/2.
• [12] Yunker (ユンケル黄帝液) is a Japanese energy drink.
• [13] Takahashi is referring to the "God of Manga" Osamu Tezuka (手塚治虫), the creator of Astro Boy (鉄腕アトム/Tetsuwan Atom), Black Jack (ブラック・ジャック), and many other legendary series.
• [14] Kazuhiko Shimamoto's editor, Kawanakajima, appears as a character in his Burning Pen manga. This is the editor in the story who Moyuru Hono tries to coerce into setting him up with an idol.

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